English translation of the interview hold in dutch:
| Studio Brussels: "The Story Of Op" with Mark Lefever. |
SB: Good evening, welcome at the story of pop, tonight with Jo Casters, well known from bands as Poesie Noire and Erotic Dissidents and hidden behind lots of pseudonyms. He made about 1000 hours of music. (music: Poesie Noire: Andy would have liked) SB: Poesie Noire with "Andy Would Have Liked". Welcome Jo Casters. Jo: Hello SB: I said, 1000 hours of music, is that correct? Jo: Yes.., no.., 1000 hours of music, all demo versions and rough versions together, but.. SB: Even more? Jo: I don't know, but I do know that I have registered about 1000 songs at SABAM, and most of them are released on record or CD. SB: Effective released? Jo: Yes. SB: And are they all good? Jo: Hahahaha,"good", what is "good"? SB: Yeah, what is "good"? Jo: That's interpretable, you don't think about that, you do what's in you. SB: Those 1000 hours, those 1000 songs, it's not possible that we know them all from the short intense New Beat period. Jo: No, we made with Poesie Noire 12 full CD's and during that New Beat period I made about 3 to 5 songs every week. And then I was involved in lots of sideprojects, mostly under pseudonyms, names that I didn't reveal, cause I liked the idea to be hidden behind something. SB: Can you name a few of those names? Jo: Ilya Dimitrijevic,... hahahaha SB: Sounds very good, Slavonic, no? Jo: Yes, sounds funky, no? SB: Yes. Jo: Then I had some Italian names, a couple of female names like Jill Johnson, this sounds a bit better, no? SB: Yes,this sounds better, it's easier to imagine somebody with that name hahahaha. Jo: Hahahaha, yes, blonde, basic nightmare, 1m84. SB: Were you, after the New Beat, still busy with music, I mean as intense as during the New Beat period? Jo: I am always busy with music, up, under, after or behind the scenes. SB: Less in the picture then. Jo: Yes, but that was the intention. Look, you can't stand in the picture all the time, it's not so healthy, you know. SB: For yourself? Jo: Yes, you become somebody who lives in cartoon. There was a time that I didn't want to use my own name, cause I couldn't stand it anymore. The media called me the guru of the New Beat, and I've got no problems with that, like Maurice Engelen said a few weeks ago here in this show, I will never do that. SB: Why did/do you want to make so many music? Jo: It's a kind of pressure to create something, I think when I would be a painter that I would paint against 700 km per hour. I learn and evoluate by doing something, then I look at it and find it good or bad, but then I go further.But I can say that I regret some things that I made in the past. SB: Yeah, but that's normal, no? Jo: Yes, it is..., and all those stories. I remember for example, a review of the first mini-album of Poesie Noire by Marc Mijlemans, he wrote:"that guy can write a song,if he wants to".And it was very nice to hear something like that, cause in those days they saw us as "buttonpushers". Working with electronics was easy, it was just pushing a button. SB: They didn't took you serious? Jo: No, they didn't took us serious, it's only the last 3 or 4 years that electronic music has become appreciated. If you see the stories in those days. Sometimes the electricity was not strong enough and then our keyboards fell out, etc... We played in 1984/1985 live with 6 people on stage, from those 6 there were 4 playing keyboards so we could play all the "lines" we recorded. You don't see this anymore these days. You see one guy on stage and you hear 35 sequencers. SB: Ok, this was a short summing up of what we gonna hear this hour, here is In Sotto Voce from 1988 with Track 1. (music: In Sotto Voce: Track 1) SB: This was In Sotto Voce with Track 1. Jo, you called this a "Luc Janssenrecord". Jo: Yes, there is a funny story behind this record. At a certain moment Luc Janssens, who I appreciate very much, said to us that we always played "safe" and things like that. SB: Was he talking about Poesie Noire? Jo: Yes he was talking about Poesie Noire and about my New Beatstuff,he said that we didn't experiment, that we always played "safe" and things like that. And because there are in Europe a lot of Luc Janssen', who are on one hand very openminded for new things, but on the other hand so serious about music,I got the idea to make a record to fool around with those people.So we made a full CD and a couple of maxi's in one week, we recorded it on 4 track, mixed it a little bit, we took a couple of Yugoslavian names, a Yugoslavian studio and a Yugoslavian label. And they bought it all. It was also wrapped in special boxes, limited to 50 copies and things like that. It is very funny, because when something like this comes on the market, no matter how unknown it is, people start to think, mmm is THIS it? Is this THE record? It becomes a game hé. SB: A game that you won. Jo: Yes, I thought it was a very funny joke. SB: When did you start making music? When you were a kid? Jo: Yes, I started very early with music, they always tried to teach me to play the blues on guitar or something like that, and then I did the opposite. SB: Who are "they"? Your parents? Jo: Yes, my parents had a very big influence on me.They listened to The Rolling Stones, The Doors, soul and stuff like that, and they were used to that sound.That's why I started with electronics, to annoye them, because when I played the guitar it didn't bothered them, so I bought some synthesizers and wavephones, stuff that sounded, in those days, really annoying. SB: Was that the purpose, to annoye your parents? Jo: Yeah, I think that is a reason to start making music, to revolt against the world, in the meaning of "this is my thing and I don't care what you say about it, and maybe you want me to be a protestsinger or something like that, but no way, forget it". SB: You played all kinds of music in the past: hardrock, punk, folk, all the things that were popular in the seventies. Jo: Yes, the seventies were very important to me, they always come back in my songs;the song we heard before here "Andy Would Have Liked" is a song about Andy Warhol. In school you had the Beatlesfans, the Stonesfans, The Doorsfans and when they asked me to which "group" I was part of, I said "The Velvet Underground", because Lou Reed, John Cale and Nico are people who influenced me a lot.I think that Lou Reed and Leonard Cohen are the best songwriters ever. SB: Jo, you were about 15 when the punk became very important here in Belgium. Jo: I am from Limburg hé, so it became important when I was 17,... no, no that was a joke. SB: A very good one. SB and Jo: hahahahaha Jo: The most important bands from Belgium are from Limburg hahahaha. SB: Yeah, like "De Brassers", "Struggler" and "Siglo XX". Jo: Yes bands like that, there are my roots, the coldwave, the feeling in that music.I think if you are from Limburg and you want to do something artistic that you have to work 10 times harder then somebody else and that makes you more determined, I remember Stijn Meuris (singer from Noordkaap), when he didn't got the chance to release his record, he was ready to kill someone SB: Hahahah Jo: Yeah really, that blind fury, that ambition, that's fantastic, their "wanting" to be famous, the same with Patrik Claesen (2Fabiola). I know how it works, you get no help, no support and if I see now what kids on the academy in Antwerp or Ghent now get,... That wasn't in my days.In my days it was, "You make music????, and what kind of music???"" It was you were doomed for life. SB: And this was the music you made, Poesie Noire and "Icicle". (music: Poesie Noire: Icicle) SB: Poesie Noire and Icicle. Jo Casters, this kind of music never lost his populartity, the series "New Wave Club Class-X" sold very well, and also today there is a hugh New Wave revival going on, have you got an explanation for that? Jo: Well, there is also a discorevival going on. I think, for kids is a musicperiod that's unknown to them, is far more interesting to discover, and the atmosphere around New Wave, that you can find with some bands today, like Radiohead for example, that's new wave for me. And you don't find that anymore with most of the bands. And for others it's just nostalgic, I know People who got stuck in that period and I feel sorry for those people. SB: Are people still interested in Poesie Noire? Jo: If you see that our website got 1000 "hits" every month, without any kind of publicity, without any links, just people all over the world who have to type the words "poesie noire" in that little square to get on that website. SB: When we look back at Poesie Noire, we can see that you were always a "searching" band, you experimented with "the form" and "the content". Jo: Yes that was the purpose. Take this song "Icicle", it comes from the album "Love Is Colder Then Death", well that's a reaction to all the things I made during my New Beatperiod. They said "yeah, he can write a dancetune, but that's it" so I wanted to do something completely different, I wanted to show that I could write a song, if I succeeded in that, that's another story of course. "LICTD" is a very cold record, no dancebeats, no electronics, just pure feelings. Then, I wanted to take a step further again, more funky things again. I had a concept in my head and that's what I wanted to do, and I did everything to realise that concept. SB: Herman Gillis was also in the band, a name that got mentioned a lot here in this show before, the man behind the Sherman Filterbank, used by The Rolling Stones, Chemical Brothers, Madonna,... What was the part of Herman in Poesie Noire? Jo: Herman played on 3 cd's of Poesie Noire. Herman was also Sherman. He was the technician of the band. When I asked Herman "Make that guitar sound like a circular saw" then he could do that. Herman was in those days already a genius, and not only as a technician, he could play everything. Then I said to Herman, "tomorrow we are gonna make a song with a Metallicasolo in it, but played on your synthesizer" and funny things like that. When I bought a new synthesizer was the first thing he asked me "can I open it, to see what's in it?" SB and Jo: Hahahaha. Jo: He wanted to know everything, he wanted to know how that worked. And after one hour he said:"I can make that too". And that Sherman Filterbank is a fantastic machine, and he has got more things "in the can", that are gonna make big changes in the electronical world, that guy is a genius. SB: Hopefully we can talk sometime with him about that, now I am gonna play something you made: "Spirit Of Bulgaria and Dance Macabre" (music: Spirit Of Bulgaria: Dance Macabre) SB: Jo Casters, what are the most important things that you've remembered in the life of Poesie Noire? Jo: Mmm tough question, what I remembered is that you've got to do some crazy things in your life, experiment a lot and follow your ambition and your dreams. SB: Was there more potention in Poesie Noire? Jo: Yeah, if I was a better singer. SB: So, you blame it on your voice. Jo: I think that was our big problem. Music depends also on coïncidences. The guy who signed Front 242 on Epicrecords in the USA, first planned to sign poesie Noire;he asked for more bands like us, and we send him to PIAS (Play It Again Sam), where he heard things like Front 242, Neon Judgement,... and finally he signed Front 242 and they sold immediately 600.000 records in the USA. SB: So, what are you trying to say now, that if you hadn't send that guy to PIAS,... Jo: No, no, no, no, unfortunately it doesn't work like that. SB: That's true. Jo: We probably would have sold 700.000 records then. SB: What was the reason to stop with Poesie Noire? Jo: Poesie Noire has always been a project were I surrounded myself with people and at a certain moment it became a real band, an Irish female singer, an English baseplayer and those people went back to their own countries to go their own ways, and at that time the recordcompany wouldn't release my new album. I've got at this moment 4 or 5 full cd's ready for release and to my opinion they are the best that I've ever made. On the other hand can I keep this music for myself, no critics, you don't learn to hate it, it stays naked and untouchable. I sometimes listen to it with my girlfriend and then we say to eachother" mmm yeah this is beautiful". These are emotions we can keep to ourselves. SB: And do you want it to keep it for yourself? Jo: Yeahh,... no,... that's the big problem with me, I always go with a genre and Belgium is not ready for that genre at that moment. 3 years ago I made a drum'n'bass pop CD and no single Belgian recordcompany was interested, and the people who like it said "but you're not English,...". I am always to early with these things, trying things before they become popular. Don't think that MSB earned a lot during that New Beat period, the people who did earn something of it are the Confetti's and that guy with his "marina"song, people who overcommercialise things. Sherman earns nowadays still not so much. SB: You mentioned the name MSB, you were Morton, Roland Beelen, boss of Antler was also part of MSB and herman Gillis. What was the part of "Morton" in this project? Jo: I was the person who came up with the concept or a little "gestalt". I was the DJ of the project. I said to Herman, "that bass has to sound like this *boom boom boom,...* (makes sound of a bass)", he played it and roland mixed it. Sherman was the technician, Roland the mixer and I did all the interviews. SB: You were always together, why? To encourage eachother all the time? Jo: Yeah, you get on the frontpage of NME and Melody Maker, we got proposals to do remixes for Stock Aitken And Waterman, then Jean-Paul Gaultier asked us to do a song for him, so we fucked up eachother all the time, thinking yeahh we are gonna make it now. SB: Was that the first time in your life that you could actually live from your music, I mean financially. Jo: Yes, if I had lived a normal life. We had 3 big years then, and then New Beat faded away,... and there was no statute for musicians. We did lots of crazy things those days and we told the others big stories and they bought that then and they told others. MSB were 3 cartoonfigures, who were making a record somewhere in the Ardennes, in a kind of lab, all 3 of us wearing white coats, and the the friendship between us, that band that was so strong, unbreakable, but there comes a time that that band has to break and that happened then. SB: Now something completely different, this is "Coincidance" and "the wonderful world of". (music: Coincidance: The Wonderful World Of) SB: This was "Coincidance" with "wonderful life of". Jo Casters was there a time that you were sick of all that New Beat, that it became too much? Jo: Yes Of Course, if you do lots of things, then you get tired of that after a while. In 1988 we did also some Chicagohouse and Detroittechno, but people always remember you of the most famous things, we also made a full CD called New Acid Techno Beat, and there was no New Beat on it, we experimented here with American genres. SB: You said in the past, that the New Beatmania was fucked up and that not one single New Beat record became a worldhit... Jo: That's not true. SB: ...and that it fall apart because you released too many records. Jo: The more releases, the faster a genre falls apart,... but you said, ok I said that in the past, that there was not one single worldhit in the new Beat, but I see a kind of relationship between "Pump Up The Jam" and New Beat. That girl who sung "Pump up the jam" played in a rapband, and I was at that time doing something with the male rapper of that band, bad luck hé SB: How unlucky can you be hé? Did New Beat stop by itself? Jo: Yes, it did, at a certain moment it became too much, we had some great days, but it all faded away, and I think that Belgiandancemusic is going the same way. Trance is also dying, people copy too much, there is no originality anymore. There are some people who are creating some new things, but it stays "underground" cause DJ's and "the people" don't buy it. Belgium is always been very racist, black music was never a succes here, and that's a pitty;New Beat was full of black and American influences. SB: Did you took a break after Poesie Noire and New Beat? Or did you continue to make music? Jo: At a certain moment I stopped with making music, also because Antler wouldn't release my new things, cause too funky, that song from "Coincidance" was one the latest things with Antler, but you've got to see it in that timeperiod, it was 1991, Eurohouse was becoming popular and then I make a record with jazzinfluences. That CD was only popular in Chicago, not in the rest of the world, then I wanted to make a record that was even more funkier, but the recordcompany couldn't understand that. If I had the chance to release those things, then DJ Shadow would be only half of his name. SB: You said, jazzinfluences, was that the direction that you wanted to follow? Jo: Yes, I've always been influenced by black music, jazz, soul, funk, I wanted to create a feel in my music, but you got limited by what I call "the white taste". In the early days of Poesie Noire, I also used funky basses and people said then, "no, don't do that, it doesn't work here". And I always wanted to go back to those roots, that music is alive, but we here in Europe we are so cold, we are only interested in robotic music, and that's a pitty. SB: Did you, through all those years, got a better view on your talents as an artist? Are you somebody who prefers to be on stage or rather behind the scene? Jo: No, I am somebody who really liked being on stage and getting media-attention,... mmm about talent, I don't believe in talent, I believe in determination, in "going for it". There are not so many people gifted with talent, most of us has to work very hard to get there, there are not so many "Prince's" in the world. SB: Jo, you've got a worldpremiere for us, a new project of yours, it's called Kju:t, we are gonna listen to it first. (music: Kju:t: So Blind) SB: Kju:t and "So blind". Jo Casters, I must say, I am really impressed ,and nobody wanted to release this? Jo: Nope SB: And it's already a couple of years old, no? Jo: Yes, it's almost 3 years old,we sent it to all Belgian recordcompanies, but noone responded. SB: But that's a shame! Jo: Yes,... we first tried some foreign recordcompanies, but they got only the instrumental versions. We wanted to do something with jazz and trip hop and some funky things in it and then Marianne's voice, Marianne who is the original singer of Poesie Noire, the coldness in her voice, that new wave feel in it, that is soo beautiful. The foreign recordcompanies liked the instrumental versions, but from the moment Marianne started to sing we got reactions like "but you are not english", " it's not suited for our market", things like that. SB: To be honest, I can't understand that. Jo: Well, me neither, this is hearable, this is something thatis suitable for ear and mind, something that people can understand, but maybe I was too early again. Maybe if I send it tomorrow again,that they are interesyted now. SB: Yeah, maybe you should give it a try again. Are you still making music now? Jo: Yes, I can't live without music, I buy every week lots of CD's, I DJ a bit in the weekends, I work for a company that makes big partyconcepts, I work with female DJ's, decoration,... I am still walking around in that little world and I find it facinating to work behind the scenes now,... and sometimes people remind me of the bad meaning of that, dopestories and things like that, they say then that I used to be a pain in the ass and that I am a sweet guy now, not that i became softer or anything like that, it just hurst when they say that. SB: Are there here in Belgium lots of new Jo Casters? Jo: That's what I said to Jan (Delvaux), here in Belgium is so many talent, boys and girls who are much better than Jo Casters. Jan said why don't you release your own stuff, and I said, I know so many young artists, who create such good music, but don't have the guts to go for it, that I would probably release their things first, before my own things. SB: But on the other hand, you can help them hé Jo, you can show them the way. Jo: Yes, but you need money to do that, there are in Belgium 5 or 6 Amon Tobins or DJ Shadows, but the problem with the new generation is that they don't have the guts to go for it, they are so good in lots of things and they can't decide to pick something out of it and say "this is my thing, here I am gonna work for", and that's a pitty. SB: I hope you will have the chance to release more stuff, that we can hear and buy, Jo, thanks for coming to the studio. We end this show with Kju:t and "The Sea". (music: Kju:t: The Sea) THE END |
by Patrik Kruse & David Hulet, interview translated by Jürgen Vanvlasselaer. |
19/04/1999 |